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 2nd Assignment

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Mrs. Ohoud
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PostSubject: 2nd Assignment   Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:03 am

To the Ladies
By Mary, Lady Chudleigh

Wife and Servant are the same,
But only differ in the Name:
For when that fatal Knot is ty'd,
Which nothing, nothing can divide:
When she the word obey has said,
And Man by Law supreme has made,
Then all that's kind is laid aside,
And nothing left but State and Pride:
Fierce as an Eastern Prince he grows,
And all his innate Rigor shows:
Then but to look, to laugh, or speak,
Will the Nuptial Contract break.
Like Mutes she Signs alone must make,
And never any Freedom take:
But still be govern'd by a Nod,
And fear her Husband as her God:
Him still must serve, him still obey,
And nothing act, and nothing say,
But what her haughty Lord thinks fit,
Who with the Pow'r, has all the Wit.
Then shun, oh! shun that wretched State,
And all the fawning Flatt'rers hate:
Value your selves, and Men despise,
You must be proud, if you'll be wise.


P.S:
This poem was published at the beginning of the 18th century. During the 17th & 18th centuries women did not enjoy the same kind of freedom they enjoy today. They were degraded, treated as second citizens, deprived of many rights, their voices were not heard & their opinions were not as important as those of men. Also, marriage was sacred & thus, divorce was forbidden in Christianity.

The word obey: The traditional marriage service called for the wife to "love, honour, and obey" her husband; the husband promised to "love, honour, and cherish" his wife.
State:
"Dignity; grandeur" (Johnson).

Points you have to take into consideration before you post your comment:

What is the poem about? What is the message that the speaker is trying to send? What is her take on marriage? is she with/against it? Do you agree/disagree with her? What are the differences/similarities between women's rights in Christianity & Islam? What are the differences/similarities between women's rights in Christian culture during the 17th/18th centuries & Saudi society today? Give your personal opinion & try to be as objective as possible.
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Heesa Al-Dosimani



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:41 pm



In this poem I think that the poet wants to deliver a message in the voice of women it is talk about the oppression of women and the nightmare of marriage and fear the women from it .It is also talk about crulty of men and they want the women to be like the maid for them to have no right to object anything they says even that was entitled for her.The message that she want to convey to people is to stop treating women like this and give her their full rights and respect her as a person who has rights to show his opinion and suggestions.I think she is did not hates marriage, but she hates the way that her society treatment the wife like that .As I said previously that she is not against marriage, but on conditions such as allowing divorce if they do not feel happy and the man should respected her.I think I am with her in this idea.The difference between the treatment of women in Christianity and women in Islam like the divorce in christian is not allowed whil in Islam is allowed also muslam women must be given her full rights whil the Christianity does not the similarities between the treatment of Muslims and Christians for women is that women must obey her husband and not disobedience, "but in Islam should not obey men in the sin of God.Today there are many differences and similarities between Islam and Christianity in the treatment of women and the difference is that a Muslim man interested in the opinion of his wife and obey her , but in this day, unfortunately, laws and transactions stand with men and women have no rights.


I hope you will like my cmment thanxxxx ms Rolling Eyes
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Mrs. Ohoud
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:53 pm

Hi Hussa,

Yes, I do like it Very Happy .Thank you for being the first to post her comment.

This is for you flower
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Walaa.Al-ghamdi



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PostSubject: My comment on the second poem.   Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:46 pm

The poem ''to the ladies'' is written by Lady Many Chudleigh in the 17 th century. At that period of time men used to control their wives and they considered them as servants. In the first line there is a metaphor which compares a wife to a servant . The speaker thinks that women at that time lost their freedom after getting married and she advices them to value themselves and to be pride and wise . I think that this poem is interesting and the speaker who is the poet seems to be little exaggerated by clarifying her idea to the readers. It is obvious that unlike Christianity, Islam respects women and gives them all of their rights. Smile
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Hana Al-Akeel



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:19 am

The poem talks about being a married women in the 18th century and the difficulities that accompanies that kind of life, and how men are suposed to be agrresive, women were not even allowed to laugh or speak they were only expected to obey thier husbands. The speaker is obviously against marriage and she's trying to send a message for all women to be proud of themselves and to abandon men and i have to agree with her in this point, because women rights in that time are kind of similar in our society nowadays although Islam has given women their rights the society didn't.
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Norah Al-madi



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:54 am

the poem was written in 1703.the poem describes the marriage and the woman role at htat time.the speaker compares the wife to a slave because they share the same rights both dont allowed to speak and prove their Existence .the word obey meant that the wife obeys her husband orders,the man is with high law so,he controls the wife .she agrees with marriage but she refuses the insult.she thinks that marriage is controling woman freedom and life .i am against because we are muslims and we have our rights .the woman in isalm considered a woman to be equal to man as human beign,islam doesnt blame eve for the first sin,a woman in islam has the right to knowledge and education.in christianity the women obey their husbands as god ,woman should remin silent in the church ,they are not allowed to speak.
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Lamia AL Nuaim



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:36 pm

This poem is about marriage. The poet describes the marriage as "fatal knot" which turns or make the wife into "mute servant". She believes that the wife doesn't have any rights and has to obey her husband all the time. Also, she compares the husband to "God" and calls him "her haughty Lord". After describing marriage as unfair relationship she tries to make the women stronger by advising them to value and be proud of yourself. She even tells them to show dislike to "Men". The poet believes that these things will help women to get out "that wretched state" into
which they are forced by society.

What are the differences/similarities between women's rights in Christianity & Islam?

I never imagined marriage to be a relationship in which women are treated as a second class and don't have any rights." my opinion". In Islam the wife and husband has different roles as a result of their nature, however, both of them expected the respect and[هُنَّ لِبَاسٌ لَكُمْ وَأَنْتُمْ لِبَاسٌ لَهُنَّ]as it is describe in the Holy Quran which mean that each one is complementary to other. finally the idea of marriage in Islam based upon equality, love, fairness and respect.

What are the differences/similarities between women's rights in Christian culture during the 17th/18th centuries & Saudi society today?


The idea of marriage in Saudi society follows Islamic rules. However, we can't deny that there is a small group of the population share and practice the same way of marriage that describes in this poem. Unfortunately, our media present this small group as the general one. In my opinion any and every society has a small group of individuals who go against the general social system.

hope you like it:oops:
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Ruba Al_Hebs



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:55 pm

"To the Ladies"

Writing about women's stolen rights was no strange thing in the 17-18 centuries due to the poor treatment women used to get. Thus, it shouldn't be surprising when Mary, Lady Chudleigh chose to join the crowd by her poem "To the Ladies". Her poem starts by pointing out that there is no difference between a servant and a wife, they share more than a gender, they actually have things in common more than expected. Then, marriage comes to the surface, and the bitterness behind her words can be understood once the reason is revealed. Marriage seems to be taking men's side against women when the word "obey" is included in the unbreakable vows. And to make things worse, after guaranteeing having a wife, the real man shows, exposing the ugly, fierce side of his. It does not stop at that point, but the torturing continues, and a wife is forbidden to look, to laugh, or even to speak! And just as a servant, she has to obey without arguing, to keep quiet and to answer with a nod. A wife must think what her husband thinks, love what he loves, and because of fear from the haughty, powerful, Godlike husband she can't do otherwise. Eventually, there comes a calling for women to escape that poor state, to start valuing themselves and be proud!



*What is her take on marriage? Is she with/against it? Do you agree/disagree with her?
It is hard for me to call that marriage, I would rather say slavery, at least it fits the description better.

*What are the differences/similarities between women's rights in Christianity & Islam?
One major difference, women in Islam have the right to demand divorce when things don't work out in a marriage similar to the one mentioned in the poem.

*What are the differences/similarities between women's rights in Christian culture during the 17th/18th centuries & Saudi society today?
It is not me who talks about differences and similarities in cultures; I will certainly be shortened to my community, the people around me. So, from what I see, marriage is more of a relationship than a fated destiny, caring, love, sharing, agreement and disagreement are all involved.


Last edited by Ruba Al_Hebs on Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jenan al
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PostSubject: jenan al-ahaik   Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:58 pm

To the Ladies by Mary, Lady Chudleigh the poem is abut women and their station in the society in the 18th century the speaker explain how women are week and controlled by men under the name of marriage the speaker is not against marriage it self but against the slavety that happened in it and she encarge women to be prude of them silfes and never allows a man to make them feel les important, in that century the woman must obeys her husband or ells she considered to be a bad person and not a god Christian.
In Christianity women must obey there men also in Islam but the different is that women in Islam had her own thought's and opinion she was roller, advisers and a teacher unfortunately when I read the poem I remembered women's life in some cosaity in Saudi Arabia it so sad to know that some people in awer "Islamic" country see the women as an object not as mined and man equal
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Amal Alb
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:31 pm

This pome it's talk about women in the 18 century and binge they treat her like maid like a slave for a man to the extent that it is afraid of the man's costume Matkhav of Lord obey him and worship him as if they obey God in Hmak century McCann, the freedom for women dress far have been treated less than men and much wealth of human and Ainsama on its view of the man call him And power in everything and get married in that century was intimidating and firing were forbidden Banasranip Baachtsar Shear..



What are the differences/similarities between women's rights in Christianity & Islam?

I believe in Islam, he honored women and marriage in Islam is based on equality and respect..


*What are the differences/similarities between women's rights in Christian culture during the 17th/18th centuries & Saudi society today?


You seen the difference between the Muslim and Christian difference between heaven and earth ...

Postulate in a Muslim country a list of wearing a headscarf, obedient to her husband, afraid of the Lord,congratulations on a great reward, and serenity and satisfaction, and the woman in the land of kufr, it is a woman unveiled, ignorant, silly, casual fashion pariah commodity, cheap displays everywhere, not worthless, not displayed and the honor of no religion..
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Ohoud Al-Ameel



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:21 pm

in this poem "to the ladies" the poet describes women in the 18th century. First of all, her description is that the wife and the servant are similar in terms of the treatment but they differ in terms of names. Also, the message that the speaker is trying to send is how they used to despise the woman and their way of marrying a women. In addition, she wants women to be treated very good and to be givin her full rights. I think she is not against marriage, but she hates the way that a marriage was done. Surely, i agree with her because this is not the perfect way of treating a human being. Moreover, there are many differences between women's rights in christianity in that century and saudi women's rights nowadays. In that century, a man did not use to respect his wife and did not use to treat her a special treatment unlike muslim society. They even did not use to give women's rights to their own wives.

sunny
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Maram Al-Numair



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:08 pm

Hi teacher I love you
Hi everybody Very Happy


I rellay like this poem because it easy to understand.

This is my Comment :


"To the ladies " poem is written by Mary ,Lady Chudleigh in 1703 .This poem talks about marriage , the situation of women at that time and how do they suffer? Also, there is no difference between women and servants . They have the same thing except in their the names .
I think the speaker is against the marriage because women suffer a lot and there is no relationship between wife an husband .Also, they have to do whatever their husbands want , they do not have rights and they controlled by men.
yes , of course I agree with her because if the marriage will make me sad , I do not need it . I want to live as the other and I am a human being .There are big differences between Islam and Christianity , first of all, there is no rights in Christianity but we have in Islam . Also, wife in Christianity is like a servant but in Islam she is wife , mother and anything that related to human .I think there is no similarities between them .However, some of people think that there is similarity between Christianity and our society which is freedom but I do not think so .



But at the end the speaker advise them to be proud and to be wise
We have to thank God for Islam and the rules which fit us .


That is all and I hope to be good Inshallah cheers

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layan
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:45 am

the poem is "to the laides" witten by Lady Mary Chudleigh is a great poem
talking about the women in 1703, in that time , women have no
authorities and their only duty is to serve their husbands .also ,she talks about the control of her husbend upon her wife. The speaker discribe a stste of women when she gets a marride. she becomes a servent for her husbend and she do not have any thing . because her husbend just give order and never asks a women if she need something .the writter want to send a massege from that poem when a man has a highlighted upon his wife. And she just serves him. The marrid life is not a servent . it is respect between them and alot of things . likewise, In christianity culture makes a wife just for servent her husbend . then a women can not diffrent from servent just in name .because that she do not like a marrige at all. Iam agree with him when we become like a christyanity but Iam disagree with him when I saudi women . because of saudi has an Islamic religion . Islam gives a wife all the human twin. And she is not just a servent for her husbend but they have a respect between them. Also, he can help his wife if she needs a help. I think this poem is exaggrated if she written in this day but she wrote in 17th century maybe it is true and fact. Another thing we can not say this is exaggrated because of we are not leave in that age . I think writter wrote this poem from her experience .we should to respect him and belive her experience .
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Noura Al-Ajlan



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:52 pm


Hi Miss Ohood
Hi girls



This is my comment, and I want say something before start to analysis this poem which is:

I thought before reading this poem the women in that society feel fair and freedom,
but when I read this poem my opinion is change. First of all, this poem talk about women in that society,
how women feeling unfair at that time. We can see that at the beginning of this poem.
Second, the speaker feeling so sad about the women we can see that in:

Wife and Servant are the same,
But only differ in the Name

In those lines she compare women and servant,
and she became very angry because the women and servant in the same level.
Then, she talks about marriage and describe it at that time.
She says the marriage is important if the men behave serious about women's rights.
She against with marriage at that time and I am agree with her because the woman like servant just serve her husband.
I don't want this way to marriage because it's like prison.
During the 17th & 18th centuries the women wasn't nothing on comparison with men.
I think in the whole religions care about women's rights, but in different way.
Everything in Islam became different because it's the most religions care about women.
In Islam the women like jewel, like diamond, like everything valuable.
In Christianity the women are insulted at that time, but now everything is different.
There are differences and similarities at the same time between women's rights in Christian culture during the 17th/18th centuries
and Saudi society today which is the men didn't appreciate the women at all,
but in the same time there are good men appreciate women. So, in this comparison's issue is equal.
In my opinion, the women now are honored, and I thanx God every minute because I am Muslim.



That's all, and I hope it right Smile
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Al-Annod Al-Sayary



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:09 am

good evening flower

I liked the poem '' To the Ladies'' , the poet speaks to women specially wives and compares them to servants. She makes The marriage as a prison which wives cannot take their freedom and lost their femininity. Also she compares man with Gad and that represent the huge force of man in women. I think she is true in many points because that clearly shown in my society and all what I hear from wives is compliant and boring experience. Finally, she encourages women to break the routine and take their freedom and pride and get their rights. Life is not only for men so feel it and live as you want!
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هند الصالحي



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:02 pm

The poem “To the ladies” is a critical poem about women’s rights. The theme of the poem is why men are evil - and why women shouldn't marry them. It is about a woman in a bad marriage warning other women of the consequences of saying ‘obey and I do...’ You will lose complete freedom over your life, everything you do will be because it is what your husband wanted. In this poem there is a lot of tension between the society and the role of women. Wife is metaphorically compared to a servant. Therefore the wife has no say in anything because even though she may be a lady, she is in no position of authority; her only task is to serve her husband. The poet is sending the women a message that they should value themselves, be proud, be wise and despise men. She also has a take on marriage as she says “fatal knot is tied” which is an obvious reference to being married. Marriage is normally associated with a positive light, a new beginning, but in this poem the poet is saying that once you’re married there is no way out, and marriage is a death of any freedom. The poet is against the idea of marriage as she states that if the marriage is as bad as the speaker’s, divorce is an option but for the speaker the only option is death itself. I agree with the poet about that women should value themselves and take a stand against men’s control, but I disagree with her about that women shouldn’t marry at all. In Islam, the rights of women are well protected. If a woman feels that her husband is unjust with her, she can get divorced. But in Christianity, women are not allowed to get divorced. Also in the 17th/18th centuries, women were like servants. They had no opinions. All they had to do was to obey their husbands. This is similar to the traditions of the Saudi society today and although there are some changes in these traditions, but they aren’t changed enough for women to gain all their rights.
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Anwar Al-Baqmi



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:15 pm

The poem was writen by lady many chudeigh in 17 century.the poet describes and talk about the marriage. in the 17th,there is not different between women and servant.also think that the marriage is control women freedom. but the message she wants women to be treat very good.


what are the difference,similarities between women righls in christianitg and Islam?
one different,women in Islam have the right to demand divorce.

*What are the differences/similarities between women's rights in Christian culture during the 17th/18th centuries & Saudi society today?
In short,the women in the land of kafr,she is cheap,not religion and bad. but in Islam wearing ahijab and strong faith in god.
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Mrs. Ohoud
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:10 pm

I'm very proud of your answers, ladies. You have so much potential, but sometimes you're too scared to let it out because you're probably afraid of making mistakes. Keep up the good work and remember that you are smarter than you give yourself credit for Wink .
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Sarah Al-Homidi



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:19 pm

''To the ladies'' is a poem written by Lady Many Chudleigh in the 18 th century. It talks about women and how are the men treated her in that time. Women deprived of many rights and their opinions were not as important as those of man, they are like servant just serves her husband. The speaker describes the status of women at that time. When women married like a prison for them. She was against marriage because they are not having women's rights and freedom. In Islam gave the women rights and care unlike the women in Christianity. flower
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Areej Al
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:09 pm

To the ladies

This is one of the poems I liked ... because it is shed light on the women..
In this poem written by Mary, Lady Chudleigh. the speaker, talked about women in the 18 century and when I read this poem I remembered the tribe, "to Amaish" living in this time ..
Isolated from the world and everything.. I mean if they were in ancient times even the women have not to go anywhere except with someone from the family brother or father or husband..
You can find information on this tribe are you looking for in the internet….

Comment
Q 1 _ this poem illustrates the treatment of Christian woman after marriage .Due to dignity men treat women badly , and their kindness before marriage turn into cruelty.
What is the poem about?
Q 2 Chudleigh expresses the way women treated during 17th and 18th centuries and how they devote their selves in unbreakable marriage. she conveys the way men treat their wives, and she despises men's cruelty after marriage.
What is the message that the speaker is trying to send
She wants the women to value and cherish their selves to reach happiness.
What's her take on marriage? is she with/against it
I don't think she is against marriage; however she protests the way the women treated through their marriage.
The differences:
The differences between the treatment of woman in Islam and Christianity are summarized in the following points:
1-In Islam, woman has the right to split from her spouse if she wants, which is the opposite in Christianity.
Muslim woman is appreciated by her spouse, while Christian woman never appreciated2-
3-Muslim woman receives kindness and love. In the contrary, Christian woman receives cruelty.
.. i hope u like it Mrs.ohuod
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Moneerah AL-Hantoush



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:15 am

Good morning ladies. sunny

The poem talks about women's situation in life and in marriage and that the

men have all the power at that time. I agree with MARAM AL-NUMIR that the

speaker wrotes this poem because she wants to tell others about her suffer

in marriage and how women's opinion and rights at that century was not

important. They just only serve their husband and try to make them happy.

I like this poem because it show how women was treat in the 17th\18th

century and in a christian society which make me very thankful for being a

muslim woman and in an Isalm society.The differances between the 17th\

18th century society and the saudi society that in saudi society women have

their own rights and their voices are listening. But in 17th\18th century

society women treat their husband like if there god and their voices was

kept and have no rights.
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Ahlam Al-otaibi



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:03 am

In this poem the poet begins by describing the traditional marriage back then . in that time women were more like servants than wifes which is stated in the first line. also she is saying that in the marriage, women only node their heads and never disagree with their husbands.Another thing that we see in this poem her feeling towards men by describing them as having " innate rigor" and in the last four lines she's asking "the ladies" to shun if they were wise.

as we see women's rights back then were not as it is now & in Christianity women may have some rights as they believe moreover they are equally to men and they are living a low life however women are more cherish in Islam and have rights to protect them from being used.


women in the 17th/ 18th in Christianity are forbidden from having rights however in Saudi Arabia the women have rights to be honored and protect.




regards

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IBTIHAL
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PostSubject: THE ASSAIMENT   Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:15 am

In this poem, the poet wants to send a message on the status of women in the eighteenth century, and how they are suffering, especially in married life. And the injustice they suffer from their husbands and their community. And see bleak outlook in the eyes of the author, because they feel it's no difference between a wife and maid, as they both may differ in name only! Then, is to not want me to be well and living a married life under oppression and male domination, but wants to independent opinion and personal freedom. On the contrary, these days, Christian women equal with men in most things Actul positions and the presidency, but her views became more than the opinions of men. "I agree with the opinion of the writer hate men and married life as a result of cruelty faced by that time. If you place, to kill my husband when I feel for a moment that he sees me as a servant and sees himself as a king!! tongue

After all, Saudi women ****** women comparable to Christianity in the eighteenth century, not even in these days! It is in the protection of the laws of Islam and legitimized the Great, who refuses to insult women, who are mother, sister, daughter, and wife. But perhaps poor understanding of the role in Saudi society today is the most prominent reasons that led to the lack of importance of their role in society start to look at the Saudi man a minor under the customs and traditions. We are a purely masculine. Perhaps our society in its infancy in understanding the role of women in society and it is not limited to child care and husband and to care about the house, as is the case of women in the eighteenth century. But women are half of society and give birth to the other half.
[b]


that is all I hope u like it:)
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Sarah Al-Khazzi



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Assignment   Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:28 am




In the poem To the ladies the speaker shows similarity between wife and servant in the 17th and 18th centuries. Woman has no rights back then, she was a servant to men when she get married, she has to obey, love, and serve her husband. Also, woman opinion wasn’t heard, only men have the right to speak. The speaker shows that woman and servant both weren't treated as people. When she speak about marriage she doesn't show pleasure and divorce was forbidden till death separate them apart. It shows no freedom for woman, no end of this misery. At the end she is warning women about marriage, and she said if you avoid marriage you will be a wise and proud woman.


So, from the poem we know that the speaker is against marriage. In this point, I agree with the speaker. If I were at that time, I won't get married. And, I'll stand for woman's rights, that she should be treated as a wife, a mother not a servant.

Moreover, there are a lot of differences between Christianity and Islam. And it's not only about divorce as the girls mentioned. From the poem we know women's right in Christianity. Unlike Christianity, Islam honored the women, treated her as a wife, and a mother. Islam gave women her right, humanity and dignity. The Islam equalize between women and men's right but not in everything that Allah created them with different nature & characters.

Nowadays, the women life depends on the police of each country more than the religion. We find women in western society had obtained the full freedom in all areas of life, starting from age 18 the society treated her equally as men. Otherwise, women in Saudi society today had the moderate freedom based on Islamic laws.

Thank you,

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sultana
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PostSubject: 2nd assignmend   Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:56 am

This poem talks about something very common. We see it a lot in some counters. She talks about marriage and describe exactly the relationship between the couple. The speaker conveys to us an important idea that is how the men treat women. They do not give them any respect, freedom, estimate. Here we see the wife gives her husband everything with no limit on the other hand he gives nothing. In this case they made the wife as a servant.
Off curse she is against the way this marriage goes. I think she wish if this treating will change to better. Yes I agree.
Women rights in Christianity are different than in Islam. In Christianity women are up used put in Islam they are treated the way they deserve. Islam has given women all rights and forest men to follow it.
In my opinion women should be treated the way Islam said. They should not be treated as men because they are not the same. They should be given all rights as long as they do not prohibited in Islam Smile
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2nd Assignment
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